Nuclear for Australia founder Will Shackel appeared on Weekend Newsday with Jaynie Seal to discuss Meta's 2035 nuclear deal.
Watch Will's full interview:
Interview Transcript
Jaynie Seal (Host): Meta has announced what they call a landmark agreement to increase the reliability of the electricity grid which includes AI already in agreement with constellation energy. Meta is also joining forces with Vistra, Oklo and Bill Gates's Terrapower. For more joining us live is the founder of Nuclear for Australia Will Shackel. Will thank you so much for joining us. So Meta describes this as the most significant corporate purchases of nuclear energy in American history. Can you break it down for us?
Will Shackel (Founder of Nuclear for Australia): So this announcement basically looks like Meta which is going to have more than 20 small modular reactors potentially built in America which is a huge announcement. Eight potentially from the Bill Gates Terrapower company which is developing small modular reactors currently and then further reactors from Oklo which is backed by Sam Alman 1.2 GW as soon as 2030 and then further reactors being upgraded by an existing operator in the United States. So this is big news for advanced nuclear around the world. Up to 20 probably more small modular reactors going to be under construction before 2035 for Meta to help power their AI ambitions.
Jaynie Seal (Host): All right. And Meta talk about them expanding on reliable power, clean and also renewable energy which they use as well. Now this includes nuclear. How clean is nuclear energy?
Will Shackel (Founder of Nuclear for Australia): Nuclear has the lowest emissions of any energy source over its life cycle. A lot of people might have seen cooling towers and what they think is smoke coming out of them at a nuclear power plant. That's actually just water vapour. Over its life cycle, nuclear has the lowest emissions because it requires less mining, produces less waste because of its enormous energy density. So nuclear power is a great win for the climate and also great win for the environment.
Jaynie Seal (Host): The waste though is an issue, isn't it?
Will Shackel (Founder of Nuclear for Australia): Nuclear waste can be safely managed. So when people talk about nuclear waste, they're mainly talking about the spent nuclear fuel. Now these are used fuel assemblies which have been safely managed for decades. Traditionally they're put into uh dry cooling pools [sic; cooling pools are water-filled, not dry] and then they can be put into dry storage. Can they also can be recycled or they can be put in long-term repositories which is what Finland is currently considering [sic; Finland has developed a facility which is currently in testing] so that no one's been harmed by nuclear waste storage around the world. It's a safe process and something that Australia has to do because our research reactor uh in the suburbs of Sydney.
Jaynie Seal (Host): And completely different in terms of nuclear for civil use and weapons use. Correct?
Will Shackel (Founder of Nuclear for Australia): Correct. So nuclear power the safe use of nuclear power in a nuclear power plant is using 3 to 5% enriched uranium typically compared to a nuclear weapon at around 90%. So these are dramatically different technologies. It's really important. We're using nuclear science and technology for peaceful purposes.
Jaynie Seal (Host): So, Will, what could this potentially mean for Australia? We know that there's the debate going on in politics. Labor is just, you know, against having nuclear, but as we move forward, we have more energy needs, whether it's severe weather events where we need more reliable energy or going into AI. What do you think this means for Australia?
Will Shackel (Founder of Nuclear for Australia): Well, Australia is going to have to meet the challenge of rising electricity demand, and I think we need all clean energy sources in order to do that. The government's set to miss their renewable targets and their emissions targets. So, we need to have all clean energy options on the table, including nuclear power. Whether you're thinking about AI, electrification, modern industries that Australia wants to attract. If we want to have a future in Australia, then we need all clean energy sources we can get, not only solar and wind, but we also need to have nuclear in the mix, which is what 32 countries around the 31 countries, sorry, around the world currently have in their mix, and some 60 are currently exploring.
Jaynie Seal (Host): Why do you think a lot of people don't believe or understand or or want to know whatever the whatever it is, but in terms of that clean energy that you talk about because there's next to no emissions, but many people hear that three-eyed fish, Chernobyl, Fukushima, what what would you like to say to people that are unsure?
Will Shackel (Founder of Nuclear for Australia): Well, look, it's really important that you get informed about nuclear power. You can go to our website nuclear foraustralustralia.com to learn more because the sad reality is a lot of people have got their education around nuclear power from the Simpsons. And it's really important that we do the work to increase nuclear literacy in Australia. We don't have nuclear power plants currently in Australia. So people don't know what it's like to live near a nuclear power plant or know someone who works at a nuclear power plant. Whereas if they went to another country, they probably are benefiting from nuclear power. So, it's really important that we're boosting nuclear literacy because there's a lot of misconceptions whether it's the three-eyed fish and that and other examples from the Simpsons that we need to get past with the science.
Jaynie Seal (Host): All right, we've got to wrap it up. I did want to quickly ask you about what's happening in China if we've got 10 seconds though.
Will Shackel (Founder of Nuclear for Australia): So, China recently joined the pledge to triple nuclear power, now 34 countries, including the world's biggest economies. So, major next step for nuclear power globally.
Jaynie Seal (Host): All right, plenty more to discuss, but thank you as always. really appreciate you joining us.